Ariana Gupta sits down and discusses her new book, Spirals for CH, navigating family archives, and provides reflections on her adolescent activism.

Will: I encountered Spirals for CH when browsing on a website called Tenderbooks, and then a few days later I went into Tenderbooks and had a quick browse, in which I encountered the book again. I was wondering if you could tell me what drove you to produce Spirals for CH and how you found that process? 

Ariana: CH is my boss's initials, and in January of this year, I was on a mission to find the perfect Spiral object for him as a present because it was his birthday. He’s the one who’s obsessed with Spirals, not me, but I’ve been working with him for the past three years. You kind of take on little things that everyone obsesses with; you kind of share. I just went on this rabbit hole of looking at things on eBay, marketplace, you name it. And before I knew it, I'd already been through 50 plus eBay listings, and everything I saw was cool. And I thought I should just make a book, and that way I can just give him all the Spiral things that I found. One weekend I just sat down and collected about 537 images, which is a lot, but it's also something that I have a lot of fun doing. Mostly through archives, through Wikimedia, through the Met Open archives, all of that. The second weekend was me putting things together and designing the book, and then by the third weekend, my sister and I just built a prototype because she has access to print labs in her school. So it was very scrappily put together on a Sunday, and we just made the first prototype and two copies essentially. I learned that a lot of people like spirals, not just my boss. It's a universally loved motif and because I had this book, it felt like there was something there and something viable. I was like, okay, maybe this could be the first book that my press puts out. 

Will: The first thought I had when I was thinking about spirals is in its modern connection to doom scrolling. Looking through social media, going to little pockets on the internet, and finding different avenues and alternating interests. What I find really interesting and get drawn to is the concept of the algorithm and this cyclical feedback loop that occurs. We give into the algorithm, the algorithm gives back to us. This conversation of do we interact, do we engage with stuff because we're being told to or do we actually hold an interest? How did you find navigating the algorithm? 

Ariana: Well, I looked at social media a little bit, but social media is unreliable because people are just picking things from Pinterest, or things that I couldn't possibly publish because I would have to licence them, or I just wouldn't have the rights to procure images like that. So for me, it was very clear, it had to be open access. So I would say the hunt wasn't so algorithmic because if you just type spiral stuff on eBay, or if you do a simple search, you're going to get very limited results, and you're going to burn through your results really quickly. I feel like when navigating the internet for something like this, you have to get a little creative with the search words and what you put into it, which is in my head part of the conversation. I had to broaden my knowledge. It's all the places you could see spirals in and whatever you remember. I'm thinking Art Nouveau. I have a book on Art Nouveau architecture and I know spirals are a repeating motif there, let me go check Wikipedia to see if I can find public domain imagery. I know spiral jetty exists, is there a public domain image of that? I know that spirals are part of galaxies or they're shaped like spirals, let me see if NASA has something. Or I know that sometimes you have tendrils that spiral up. So, I'm looking at tendrils. A lot of my search had less to do with the algorithm. It takes a bit of art history research to get really specific with references. I would say it was a fun investigation into how many objects I can recall as spirals. 

Will: What do you think you're looking for when you're looking? What do you think you're trying to find? 

Ariana: I think it was pretty open-ended because it just had to look like a spiral. So whether that be a literal spiral, like an ammonite, or if it's a vase that has a spiral around it, or if it's a tendril, or just something that vaguely fits the description of a spiral. It could be a painting, it could be an object. I collected so many diagrams; there are so many images that didn't make it into the book because I was trying to build a good flow and kind of pair images together. But when I'm looking, I just keep an open mind and anything that looks interesting, anything that I stare at for longer than two seconds, I'm usually downloading. Because it's on the internet, it’s really easy for me to just save things and then I can sort through things later. It’s a mix of intuition and just sometimes a hoarder’s mindset. I just need to have.

Will: I resonate with that very deeply. My photo album is so full, it's so busy.  I always go “I'll get back to that another day,” but then I just go and add a bunch of images alongside that. In terms of your practice, you described being interested in how design exists outside formal structures. What's something that you have encountered recently that was designed beautifully or caught your eye without anyone necessarily thinking of it as design? 

Ariana: It's funny because like everything you interact with has been designed technically. So it's

just a matter of finding something that's nicely made. I almost feel like we're suffering from the disease of over-designing things, in my opinion. Branding is a plague and everything is branded. I guess this menu that my sister picked up from this halal Chinese spot in Brooklyn. Their menu is really well designed. I think they all go to the same person or shop, and it's really well done with the images of all the food on the back. I also like when menus have pictures of the dishes. 

Will: You’ve talked about archives as a source of inspiration, including your own family archive, which is something similar at Margene for Kewal and Aditi. When they look to turn for inspiration for their own design, they're looking at their heritage, they're looking at their own background, they're

assessing their upbringing. What happens when something becomes personal rather than

simply visually interesting? Does that change how you design and interact with it? 

Ariana: A little bit. I'm thinking more about how my family is going to perceive this as

part of the audience, as opposed to just making something in a vacuum a little bit. I also think it opens me up to thinking of my family members in different ways that I wouldn't have thought of before. The one project that comes to mind is the silk screen saree that I did for my mum and the process of that. I was in India at the time and I needed archival material and my father was really generous in sending me all of their old images from back when they were dating and their marriage album, all of that. He sent it, and it took him a whole day to send everything. There were about 200 documents in terms of pictures. Images of my grandparents with them, all the family holidays that the two of them took before we were born. He even scanned all the love letters and greeting cards they exchanged when they were together long distance before marriage. That was pretty sweet. At first, the process my dad did and then going through the images, I saw a different version of my mum. I'm looking at the past and I'm reading what she wrote and what she was thinking, and I'm trying to imagine what my mother was like when she was 20. It just feels like I’m getting to know a different person, or I guess just a different version of the same person. I think the archive allowed me to have a conversation with that individual. I lost my grandfather, my mum’s dad, fairly early when I was pretty young, so going through old images also brings back certain memories. It was a bilingual project, so I made a little zine as well. I can speak Bengali, which is my mother tongue but I don't know how to read or write it so then I had to call my grandmum up to help me translate, and I had to call my aunt up. So it forces connection with family members. You're getting everyone together to help you build this thing. Very much a communal project. 

Will: I’ll now shift to your other book, Sense to Sense, and I want to particularly focus on the idea of paying attention to the sensations that you might normally overlook. What's your relationship to your senses in general and how does that materialise into design? 

Ariana: I would say I'm fairly emotional. I think part of that is because I feel things, and that

can be mostly a strength, especially if you're an artist. It’s good to be in touch with your

senses. Just because I'm in the visual arts, I would say my sense of sight is probably the one that I most do. It's also what gets activated when I'm walking around in the city, in a new place, or when I'm

observing things. That's the one that I've also trained the hardest because I'm constantly looking

at images, constantly looking at things, drawing comparisons. One that I've been meaning to explore more has been scent and sound. I didn't realise, but I don't know if you know this, but there are more scents the human nose can sense than the eye can see. But the issue is, we don’t have the language to catalogue the sense. So our vocabulary inhibits us from naming all the things that we're smelling. People have tried to make matrices or systems of identifying scents and smells but it's been really difficult because it's like a chemical reaction. It changes. When you spray perfume, the same perfume on me might smell different if it's on you, because our bodies will react with it differently. The smells that we're sensitive to would also be different. And then the memories that scent elicits are also very subjective. I think broadening my mindset and opening my mind to other things has helped me broaden the kind of projects I make. I'm currently dabbling in sound a little bit. I'm not doing any sound design, but I did go and record a few things. It just helps you be present. 

Will: Speaking about design and producing visual and sound material, you made a short film in 2023 called Chandra, where you expressed the desire to pursue filmmaking further. What does film do for you that you feel design can't? 

Ariana: I think film is, in my opinion, a great way to mix all the art forms. If you're someone who's excited by visuals and sound and the theatrics of things and costumes and character and story, I think film is the perfect medium because it allows you to blend everything. And as a director, you kind of are shaping the world and telling a story and setting the stage a little bit. I don't know if any other medium gives you that level of control or involvement like film does. When you're watching a film, hopefully if you're not in a room full of distractions, you're fully immersed, if it's a good film. So it has the power to force you into the present moment. Theatres are wonderful places, obviously because of the escapist aspect of it, but then also because, again, it’s another way of just being present and looking at what's being put in front of you. Film as a medium will always be interesting because moving images just have a different effect on you compared to something that's still. It’s a fun medium to push things in. 

Will: Would you say there're any films that you felt inspired by that you would want to interpret or take elements from and integrate into your own? 

Ariana: I definitely look at film and not necessarily take inspiration to make a film, but more so just looking at colours, or looking at the storyline, and taking something with that. I really liked this one that comes back to me because we were talking about my mother just a while ago. It's called Memory Box. It's this Lebanese independent film from a few years ago, and it’s the story of a teenage daughter and her mum. Her mum’s from Lebanon, and they moved to Canada after the civil war broke out. This young girl is going through her mum’s old albums and diaries and things, and she's imagining what her mother's life would have been like in Lebanon as she’s going through these things. I found that really fascinating. I watched it right around the time that I was working on this family archive project. I definitely must have connected. I also like films that sort of blur the lines between fiction and reality. So while you're watching it, there are time jumps. And I hate time jumps, but they're not real time jumps. Because it's not like, oh, now we're gonna have a flashback to this thing. It's what this girl, what this daughter is imagining, it's clearly fiction but you don't know that. And so I think that it can leave you feeling kind of unsettled because you're not sure what's happening. I enjoy feeling like that when I watch a film.

Will: You started thinking about feminism and representation very young. Your TED Talk, Why We Should Teach Children Feminism, and also your book New Age Fairy Tales. But also more recently, you did design work with Zuban. Has your understanding of feminism changed as you progress into adulthood from adolescence?

Ariana: Definitely. I think adolescent me was just, I wouldn't say active, but maybe activated is the right word. I was ready to fight anyone and everyone. It felt like you just had to defend yourself a lot, and I don't feel like that anymore. Part of it was growing up in Mumbai, even though it's  a big cosmopolitan city, and I had friends and we would talk about feminist theory and be reading similar books. But it's India, and it’s still fairly patriarchal. So it can be difficult growing up as a girl turning into a woman. Everything just feels like a fight. You just don't have the space to exist as who you are, who you want to be. Safety is a concern for women. I maybe wasn't as and couldn't be as objective as I am now. I know that I've had some distance and I've diversified who I'm reading, but I did recognise that it wasn't so much like male bashing. That’s what I wanted to do with the children's book, the patriarchy is bad for everyone, and we need to come together to fight it, and as an adult I obviously still agree with those notions. One of my favourite writers now is Ursula K. Le Guin. I really like her writing on gender and how it's experienced and on what's possible for women. I think for the longest time I was like, oh, if the stereotype is women belong in the kitchen, I don’t want to be in the kitchen. Just something a little childish like that from when I was younger, where I believe that if I didn't do this thing that was associated with or sold to you as something all women had to do, I just will not partake in it. Now as an adult, I realised that actually cooking is a life skill and you need it to be a functioning adult. And so it's silly to be like, I'm just never gonna step foot in the kitchen. Small things like that, I think I've come around to it. I took a lot of classes on gender studies in college, which also helped. It's definitely changed my outlook and how I approach it. 

Will: If someone went through your computer, your bookshelf, a book stack, or even a saved image, what would they understand about you that they wouldn't necessarily get from looking at your finished work? 

Ariana: That’s a tough one, because I have to put myself in someone else's shoes a little bit. But my hope is that they get this sense of awe and wonder, not at what I own, but oh, this person is enamoured by being in awe of things or is interested in understanding how wonder works.

Will: What would be your message in your design if you had one? 

Ariana: That's tricky, because design is different from the arts because you're trying to communicate something. Each project is different; you're dealing with briefs and there's always something that you need to communicate. With my personal work, and when I'm working as an artist, and I'm just using design as the medium to express that I think, again, it differs. I like humour a lot and I like employing the subtext of things or a 2nd reading, so I would like to find a way to weave the two, or I just like it when things bring joy. If some of my work can do that, I think that would be amazing. 

Will: That’s something that I definitely should apply to my own view, my own interpretation of success.  Thank you for your time, it’s been lovely to speak to and hear from you. 

Spirals for CH is available at Tenderbooks, Claire De Rouen, 3Standardstoppage Studio, and Dashwood Books. 

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity. 

BIO: Ariana Gupta is a multidisciplinary designer whose work explores and interrogates everyday visual culture through a mix of archival work, research, and observation. Ariana currently works for Regrets Only, creating numerous visual material for institutions and brands such as MoMA, A24, and Misha & Puff. Ariana’s personal projects include Mother Tongue (2023) which draws on matrilineal inheritance, Avani’s Times (2022) which champions her sister, and Chandra (2023) an award-winning film at the New York Independent Film Festival based on Mon Amour by Chaitali Shaw. Gupta's latest project, Spirals for CH, is a publication that collates found images of spirals from open access archives, eBay listings, and various corners of the internet.